Using containers
Going back to your earlier question though, I think that the definition of DevOps itself inherently means compromise. The operations and developers at any company have to compromise to get the stuff to work together and to go faster. Maybe that's compromising on security or on testing. Maybe our testing lifecycle isn't four weeks' worth of user testing anymore; maybe it's just four days before we go to production? But in a lot of cases, we can't just speed things up without making some sort of eventual compromise that every party involved in would be okay with.
Viktor Farcic: Let's talk more about you, Bret. From my understanding, most of the time, you're helping companies or people adapt to using containers. Do you think we should be shipping everything in containers? As someone who's so invested in the concept, do you ever sit back and say that, actually, no, this stays as it is—we're not going to use containers?
Bret Fisher...