Viktor Farcic: That's a valid point. In closing, do you have any parting ideas and words, or is there anything that comes to mind that I forgot to ask?
Julian Simpson: No, I think we've covered what I think is most important, which is the culture. I'm super pleased that we haven't really discussed automation or any of the tools, except as examples of something else. To me, DevOps is all about culture and collaboration.
Viktor Farcic: Does that mean the culture shapes the tools or do tools shape the culture, or both? I mean, can you adopt one without the other?
Julian Simpson: My guess is no, because people's expectations must change. I think the tools they use and the culture in which those tools are used are tightly linked. If you could change the culture, then the tools might change consequently, or vice versa. But I think it's more than that.
Lindsay Holmwood did a talk at DevOpsDays 2016 in Wellington, New Zealand, where he pointed...